terri_testing ([info]terri_testing) wrote,
@ 2008-10-01 11:24:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:gryffindor standards, hermione granger, lying, morality, troll incident

Gryffindor (Im)Morality: The Education of Miss Granger
We first meet Hermione on the Hogwarts Express.

The Grangers, middle class dentists, apparently raised their daughter to play by middle-class values: to be hard-working, law-abiding, conscientious, and helpful. The Hermione we first met clearly expected that doing her best and playing by the rules would be rewarded.

By adults, most probably, but at least not punished by other children.

I grew up in an anti-intellectual mill town, and I had learned by second grade that being "too smart" was socially iffy. I was still, like Hermione, naturally competitive, a perfectionist and a teacher-pleaser, but I tried desperately to hide this from other children. When my family moved out of town and I did go to a new school, I started off by concealing my GPA and refusing to volunteer in class.

Hermione did the exact opposite. She apparently expected to be valued for her intelligence, talent, drive, and rule-upholding. So her previous social experiences must have reinforced that it was okay to be both a good girl and a good student.

(Notice that Hogwarts changed that completely: when a Ravenclaw commented, 5th year, that her Protean Charm was NEWTS level, Hermione brushed it off. As I would’ve, having repeatedly experienced being punished for doing well. But Hermione was innocent of that reaction as a Muggle-born firstie.)

Unfortunately Hermione believed in what she had read, and she insisted that the Sorting Hat put her in the "best" house, Gryffindor, rather than in Ravenclaw where her talent, intelligence, and diligence would have earned her respect, companionship, and certainly a healthy dose of competition.

Her first two months in her new House, she tried repeatedly to get her new housemates to obey the rules and to win admiration by gaining House points for her academic performance. Her reward was to be labeled "a nightmare" and become a total social outcast.

But Hermione was bright, and she learned. What she learned was that to get friends in her House, she had to abandon the principles with which she was raised. And Gryffindor was the best House, so it was right to adjust to its norms.

Look again at the troll incident, at the lie Hermione told the professors. It's presented, from Harry's POV, as Hermione lying to save the boys from being punished—which loyalty they rewarded by including her in their friendship. But in fact Hermione did not need to lie to save the boys from McGonagall's wrath—the truth would have served as well or better for that. Let’s look at the scene.

Then a small voice came out of the shadows.

“Please, Professor McGonagall—they were looking for me.”

“Miss Granger!”

“If they hadn’t found me, I’d be dead now. Harry stuck his wand up its nose and Ron knocked it out with its own club. They didn’t have time to come and fetch anyone. It was about to finish me off when they arrived.”

Note that all of the above is factually correct (although Hermione had no way to know the boys had come to the corridor to warn her, she certainly knew that they ran in when they heard her scream). Would that not have been sufficient to get the boys their ten points?

So what was the point of the omitted statement, the lie? Well, let’s look at it.
“I went looking for the troll because I—I thought I could deal with it on my own—you know, because I’ve read all about them.”

Ron dropped his wand. Hermione Granger, telling a downright lie to a teacher?


“Miss Granger, you foolish girl, how could you think of tackling a mountain troll on your own?”

Hermione hung her head. Harry was speechless. Hermione was the last person to do anything against the rules, and here she was, pretending she had, to get them out of trouble. It was as if Snape had started handing out sweets.

“Miss Granger, five points will be taken from Gryffindor for this.”

The actual point of Hermione’s lie was that it was gratuitous.

Hermione the goody-good publicly denigrated her own abilities and demonstrated, by doing it, that she was willing to break rules (lying to teachers must surely have been the worst of sins in her book) to be accepted by her peers. And it worked. She sacrificed her principles; she gained conditional acceptance.

Acceptance, of course, was conditional on her continuing to sacrifice her parents’ principles. In her subsequent Hogwarts career she smuggled a dangerous creature into the school to conceal a crime; she twice assaulted a teacher; she stole; she brewed an illegal potion; she consistently cheated in classes by doing friends' homework or (potions) classwork for them; she lied whenever required. She became, if you want to get technical, both an accomplice to crimes and a criminal herself. But none of it was to benefit herself, so it was all okay.

As she explained, loyalty and bravery matter more than book-learning and cleverness. Or morality.

When she was made prefect, like Lupin before her she sat by and allowed her personal friends to get away with flagrant infractions of the rules, infractions that harmed other students. She allowed Ron to abuse his position (confiscating a Fanged Frisbee to play with it himself) and Harry to attack people for his idle entertainment. She hexed other children herself: cheating Ron's way onto the Quidditch team, and (apparently permanently) disfiguring Marietta for "sneaking" and turning in the illegal DA (which hadn't been illegal when Marietta had signed that parchment: Marietta had never signed up to defy the Ministry, only to hang out with her best friend and get some extra lessons in DADA).

She had learned the lesson of Gryffindor: there are no moral standards. Absolutely any behavior is acceptable if done to help a friend.

The girl who performed Unforgivable Curses in Book Seven without compunction or remorse is already there in Book One. Lying to her teachers to buy friendship.

Doing evil for the sake of your friends demonstrates the depth of your loyalty to them and is therefore Good. Thus saith the Gospel of the Gryffindor.

Thanks be to Godric.




(Post a new comment)


[info]oryx_leucoryx
2008-10-01 06:55 pm UTC (link)
We can add kidnapping and blackmail (Rita Skeeter). The absolutely weird thing is that hermione caught Rita in the hospital wing while Dumbledore was giving instructions to his various agents, making war plans. And Hermione catches a potential enemy spy - Skeeter appeared to have connections with the Malfoys, at the least. But instead of dealing with that aspect of Skeeter's activities (by bringing her to Dumbledore, for instance) Hermione extracts a promise from her not to publish anything for a year. Which means Hermione was more concerned about her and her friends' public image than the war effort.

No wonder Rowling worries that the Sorting Hat might place her in Hufflepuff rather than her beloved Gryffindor. She believes in placing one's friends above all. (Like those Hufflepuffs that wore the 'Potter stinks' badges in GOF.)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Great catch
[info]terri_testing
2008-10-07 05:19 am UTC (link)
I so hated Rita I avoided the thought of her, is my only excuse for missing that. But yes, Hermione not only resorted to kidnap and blackmail, she did so to whitewash her friends' rep, NOT to achieve actual war effort. Rather like Lupin, actually, who sacrifices real war objectives to look good.

I can't remember the Red Hen {Jodel}'s exact description of the houses:

Ravenclaws want to be right.
Hufflepuffs want to belong.
Gryffindors want to be admired.
Slytherins want to win.

Gryff's will do anything to be admired even when they don't deserve it....

Not sure putting "one's friends above all" is a Hufflepuff trait.... do we ever see a real Hufflepuff putting friendship above ethics?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Great catch
[info]oryx_leucoryx
2008-10-07 06:58 am UTC (link)
Not sure putting "one's friends above all" is a Hufflepuff trait.... do we ever see a real Hufflepuff putting friendship above ethics?
I wouldn't say exactly friendship above ethics but Hufflepuffs can be unpleasant to outsiders when protecting or promoting their own. Mostly because they feel genuinely threatened (as in COS, when they believed Harry was a threat to Justin) or because they believed the outsider has acted unfairly (as in GOF, when Harry was believed to have cheated his way into the Tournament). But even after Cedric asked them to tone it down, and most likely said he did not believe Harry had cheated they were still antagonistic. (I tend to believe the reason Hermione couldn't find the Bubble-head Charm despite all the time she dedicated to combing the library for underwater breathing tips was that the Hufflepuffs all borrowed the relevant books, but that's my personal canon.) And there is the unexplained negativity of Zacharias Smith - he may have been reacting to Cedric's death and Harry's possible involvement in it, or he may have had a bad history with Weasleys but he was constantly negative and antagonistic. The Hufflepuff togetherness does have its downside.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]elethian
2008-10-02 07:16 am UTC (link)
Doing evil for the sake of your friends demonstrates the depth of your loyalty to them and is therefore Good. Thus saith the Gospel of Godric Gryffindor.

Thanks be to God.


LOL, whoa. Bitter much? ;)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Bitter?
[info]terri_testing
2008-10-07 05:22 am UTC (link)
How can you say so? I am hurt by this comment. By the way, I changed the original of what you quoted to better reflect my, um, lack of bitterness. (If it helps, my middle name is Marie).

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Bitter?
[info]elethian
2008-10-07 05:31 am UTC (link)
(If it helps, my middle name is Marie).

*censes you with myrrh*

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Bitter?
[info]terri_testing
2008-10-07 05:43 am UTC (link)
Sigh... I feel so much better. Hey! I haven't used H.D. in my epigraphs yet (surely you've spotted most of my fics have started as an excuse to flaunt a favorite quotation). Let's see if I can work in Hilda's bundle of myrrh.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]marionros
2008-10-02 04:14 pm UTC (link)
Bravo! You nailed once again exactly what I find so annoying about those books. Everytime I say something like 'those books are anti-intellectual dogma', fans will scream at me that I'm wrong because what about Hermione? Well, what about Hermione? Whatever native intelligence she had gets subordinated to Gryffindor anti-estabishment hooliganism.
It's also the reason why Severus Snape is just the only character in those books (well, apart from Percy) that I like; you can just imagine that young Severus had a hell of a time at muggle school, living in a slum in the early sixties when the British schoolsystem was being demolished. You can just imagine how he would long for Hogwarts, believing that being amongst likeminded people, people who were clever, would finally free him to use his brain. Alas, the Gospel of Godric Gryffindor says that one should genuflex before posturing, loudmouth, mouthbreathing Gryffindor jocks in order to obtain Goodness. Being true to oneself, wanting to grow intellectually and make something of yourself (instead of just living off the family fortune), not bowing your neck to purebred Quidditch heroes is clearly a sign of Evil (am I the only one to see the irony in this? Rowling hates aristocrats, so she made Slytherins concerned about bloodlines etc, but James Potter, when we first meet him on the Hogwarts Express, is the sheer *epitome* of what popular culture imagines aristocrats to be; a rah rah hot-potato-in-the-mouth, I-only-live-for-sports-dontcherknow, a 'who's the oink they just let anybody enter Hogwarts these days' jerk)

Of course, were Rowling to read this, she wouldn't understand a word I was saying. This has largely to do with the fact that she doesn't write characters but plotdevices. When she needs something done, hidden or exposed, she suddenly gives an established character a sudden ability trait without considering the consequences. Darn the woman!

Bitter? Moi?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]oryx_leucoryx
2008-10-02 08:50 pm UTC (link)
Well, what about Hermione? Whatever native intelligence she had gets subordinated to Gryffindor anti-estabishment hooliganism.

And she does so herself, very explicitly, in the first book when she devalues her own abilities compared to Harry's 'friendship and bravery' (ie bravado).

I'm so disappointed with Hermione's character arc in so many ways. While I understand and accept some of her misdeeds - for instance when she set Snape on fire she believed she was saving Harry's life, and she did scoop the fire away when she managed to distract him sufficiently - as the books go on her schemes become both more morally questionable and less well-thought-out (see above regarding Rita Skeeter, and the DA parchment curse is the stupidest and vilest ever). Then in HBP she gives silent support to outright bullying and engages in gratuitious hexing for completely selfish goals. I was hoping so much that in DH she would be confronted with the consequences of some of those acts, but Rowling let her get away with the mind-rape of her own parents on top of everything else. The girl is on the way to become the next Dumbledore, though she will probably do her scheming from within the Ministry.

- Oryx

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Hermione's vilest deed
[info]terri_testing
2008-10-07 05:35 am UTC (link)
Actually Hermione's vilest deed has to be-- I hope--sending Dolores Umbridge to the Centaurs to be gang-raped by the herd. Which, as a rape victim, I couldn't bear to address directly. Canon doesn't make it explicit, but Jo does make sure we mock Dolores's panic attacks when Ron mimicks the sound of hooves.

But the mythology is pretty unambiguous about what Dolores faced when the Centaurs dragged her off. And Hermione knowingly set her up for it, though Dolores's own bigotry and arrogance sealed the outcome.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hermione's vilest deed
[info]oryx_leucoryx
2008-10-07 07:09 am UTC (link)
First of all, I had no intent to belittle yours or anyone else's experience. Not being familiar with centaur-lore this one flew by me. However whatever Hermione intended, at least this was a plan she came up with on the spot under duress, to prevent Harry's torture, possibly to insanity (would Umbridge have been any more forgiving than Bellatrix?). The DA parchment curse (definitely not a jinx, lifelong scarring is not funny) was something she planned in her free time, probably over the course of days, maybe a couple of weeks. There are plenty of canonical spells she could have used that would have been both more effective in protecting the DA and not caused long term, or even short-term harm, and thus would have been suitable even if the betrayal was coerced.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hermione's vilest deed
[info]terri_testing
2008-10-07 10:16 pm UTC (link)
You're right, the exploit with the centaurs at least has the merit of not having been thought out with both hands for two weeks beforehand. I didn't catch the rape reference myself; Fawkes-07 and I think excessivelyperky referenced it in fan fic, and I saw someone else explain the classical reference in an essay. But Hermione is better-read than me; she knew what she was bringing Umbridge to, and she was counting on getting off a similar fate because centaurs won't hurt foals.


I just pulled down Dumbledore's Army--golly, what a blooper! Thanks for catching it for me. I'll have to rewrite that whole scene; it really was tied around Dennis's character. Sigh.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hermione's vilest deed
[info]oryx_leucoryx
2008-10-07 11:25 pm UTC (link)
If Rowling had some more sense she could have used the Umbridge storyline (as well as Skeeter and Marietta) to teach Hermione to rethink her views, to learn she had to have some limits or her plans would eventually backfire on her. After all, in OOTP, as evil as Umbridge was, her prejudices were, as far as she dared to express them, limited to part-humans. Was her heading of the Muggle-born Registration Commission just adjusting to the times? Was she acting on long-held prejudices she did not feel free to reveal in Dumbledore's school? Or did she develop a viscious hatred of Muggle-borns after the way she was treated by one?

As for Skeeter - Hermione forced her to write that pro-Harry article in the Quibbler (for no pay, either). When Harry was vindicated the following summer, I suppose Skeeter came to be seen a more credible journalist, so that when she wrote her revelations about Dumbledore more people were inclined to believe her? But Rowling doesn't go there, as if nobody remembered that it was Skeeter who was the first to say the truth about Harry and about Voldemort's return in the wizarding press. Instead public opinion of Dumbledore did not matter to the storyline, because the trio was isolated, and evidently none of the people that mattered for the fight (Order members, DA members, Hogwarts staff) cared what Skeeter wrote.


(Regarding Dumbledore's Army, present at Hogwarts at the time would be at most 5 Ravenclaws, 4 Hufflepuffs and 4 or 5 Gryffindors, depending on whether you include Seamus, who only joined for the last meeting in OOTP)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hermione's vilest deed
[info]terri_testing
2008-10-09 04:30 am UTC (link)
Ooh, I hadn't thought of Umbridge's participation in the MBRC as being motivated by Hermione... I just thought she was brownnosing the current administration. You're right, though, all the prejudice she exhibited before was against non or part-humans, or people she categorized as such. Not Muggleborns and half-bloods! All too plausible a reaction, I'd say, though canon gives us nothing to determine either way.

Rereading, canon IS explicit who was in the original DA, and who could return that September. Thanks for your assistance!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Hermione's vilest deed
[info]marionros
2008-10-09 11:34 am UTC (link)
Word! I never liked Rowling as a writer, but she would've gained a bit of my grudging admiration if she had, say, ended the last book with a horcrux hunt and it turned out that Zacharias Smith was the holder of the Hufflepuff horcrux, Marietta the holder of the Ravenclaw horcrux and Draco Malfoy the holder of the Slytherin horcrux (Reggie was his cousin, after all). The trio would first attempt to steal the objects of course, but if Rowling would then have the trio rethink their ideas about these three maligned characters and their previous actions concerning these three, Rowling really could've made a few poignant points. As it is, the message is 'my way or the higway and my might is right - you're right is in the broomcupboard'.

The Doloros scene I found particularly repugnant because we are shown how a bunch of children are tormenting a shellshocked woman, making noises that mimic that which she is so afraid of (and it doesn't really matter if her fears are rational or prejudiced or whatever - she is truly afraid of centaurs)and we are told that this is funny.
Ron, Ron! is the one making clip-clop noises. But then, Ron has learned much from the twins who, no doubt, regularly conjured his bed full of spiders just to 'teach him that his fear was irrational' and silly and nothing to collaps into foetal position for ("its funny, Ronnikins, FUN-ny!")
Ginny (the hateful bitch!) then boldly states that Umbridge is malingering and 'just wanting to gain attention' (or something like that; I'm quoting from memory here)
Oh, yeah, sure, little hooligans! Let's go to St Mungo's, to Neville's parents who have been in crucio induced cataconia for more than a decade. Lets stand behind them and shout Crucio! and laugh in glee as theycrinige in terror. They're just attention seekers, really!

I felt.. dirty, reading that passage. Rowling is clearly having fun, torturing Dolores, and she's making us readers accomplices, just as she did with Dudley and the toffee. We are pulled into the Gryffindor hyena pack, jeering at the stupid muggle/catagonic ministry official, and we get nudges from the author; "isn't this funny? *nudge* nudge*"

Ugh.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hermione's vilest deed
[info]oryx_leucoryx
2008-10-09 04:00 pm UTC (link)
And then Hermione and Ginny muffle their laughter in bedclothes. Yuck!
She can get riled up for causes, but if you cross her or one of her favorites you are less than human, you don't deserve any dignity whatsoever.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hermione's vilest deed
[info]oryx_leucoryx
2008-10-09 04:46 pm UTC (link)
Sorry to piggy-back on myself.

Had Hermione's reaction been 'I'm sorry she was hurt that badly, but that was the only thing I could come up with before she started torturing you, Harry' that part of her story would have looked much better.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hermione's vilest deed
[info]terri_testing
2008-10-11 05:13 am UTC (link)
The cringingly-embarassing part for me, Terri, is I wasn't upset originally. (Of course originally I didn't let myself visualize what Dolly was being dragged off TO.) But yes. Given what Dolly was fully willing to unleash on Harry, one could have engaged in a debate whether Hermione's response were justified. Or excusable, in the heat of the moment. If one were willing to debate that, serious, eminently debatable, horrific topic.

JKR relegates the debate to a couple of (we know what side--good!) school girls snickering. And Minerva, goddess of wisdom, is disappointed not to torture Dolly when she's sent packing....

Yes, Oryx, had anyone on the 'light' side said, "I'm sorry, that was the best I could come up in the heat of the moment with to prevent them torturing Harry and destroying our side...."

But no one, ever, presented that argument. Torture, no matter how extreme, is presented as an automatic good. So long as the enemies were on the wrong side.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Character and destiny
[info]terri_testing
2008-10-07 05:50 am UTC (link)
What's extraordinary is that Jo managed, despite herself as it seems, to give us character-driven dolts characters to fixate on. If you want to see my take on Severus at Muggle school, read my Father of the Man Series earlier on this livejournal!

Thanks for your comments, M!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Character and destiny
[info]marionros
2008-10-09 12:50 pm UTC (link)
Well, I wonder about that... I mean, remember those ink spot tests (Rorschach?) where people were shown meaningless ink blots and asked what patterns/images they could they could see in them? I'm afraid that a lot of the things in the books only make sense because we, the readers, 'connect the dots' so to speak. Rowling pulls characters out of her *ss when she needs them to do something ('oh, yeah, the *real* traiter is an animage as well, umm.. a rat! Ron's rat, in fact. Hm. Better get Hermione a magical cat which chases the rat because it in on to it. Hm. And a new teacher, who was friends with Harry's father and the rat and the prisoner as well...") and then she forgets about them, never uses them again, never thinks about their backstory (leaving it to the fans to discuss why Lupin never visited Harry if he was such good friends with James)
She also tends to change a character's character with each book (points in case: Draco and Snape)
It's a real pain, because the characters have potential. Hey, any gamester knows that if you create a character, even by rolling dice, and place them in an universe, even a crappy universe, any halfwit with imagination can come up with a semi plausible story.

What irks me, is that Rowling gets lauded for creating interesting characters whilst she 'borrowed' and cobbled her books together. I mean, Harry Potter? Years before the first Potter book was published, I read the comic 'Books of Magic' with its hero, Timothy Hunter. Timothy was an darkhaired young boy with round glasses who was potentially the greatest magician on earth. He also had a pet owl, and there was a magical realm, hidden from the 'mundane world' which was in decay, but which Timothy had the potential power to heal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Books_of_Magic

And what about 'Larry Potter and his best friend Lilly' and 'The Legend of Rah and the Muggles' by N.K. Stouffer? Larry Potter is a darkhaired boy with round glasses.
But heck, 'Harry Potter' was already a character in the 1986 movie 'Troll'. The character is a normal, average darkhaired boy, who discovers magic and battles a troll... And the list goes on, and on, and on...

http://www.geocities.com/versetrue/rowling.htm

Plundering mythology is one thing, plundering other peoples' work?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…